Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Success isn't given, it's earned. And earning it means becoming the person who deserves it. The bottom line is where we cut through the chaos to simplify success, uncovering the strategies, mindset and resilience it takes to win. Real stories, expert insights and practical tools. Because the only way to the top is by putting in the world. This is the bottom line.
Welcome to the Bottom Line. I'm your host, Ryan Herpin, and on this show we uncover what really drives success in leadership, business and very, very important human connection.
The bottom line is that, you know, isn't just about numbers, it's about people.
My guest today is someone that I truly admire. She's absolutely incredible. And to be honest with you, she is a very powerful force in the world of culture and leadership. Risha Grant is an award winning entrepreneur, keynote speaker and best selling author of Be better than your B.S. she's worked with companies like Google, Gamble and YouTube to help leaders break down bias and build group places where everyone feels seen.
In this first segment today, we're tackling something that, you know, it's kind of subtle, but the unspoken rules of the workplace, you know, in the culture that's within it. Right. These are these silent signals that tell people whether they, they belong or not. And most of the time they're invisible to those in power. Risha, I'm so glad to have you on the show. It's such a pleasure to have you here. I'm so excited to dive into these topics with you. You've got so much experience on it. So, you know, as, as the show's name would suggest, this is the bottom line. I like to get right to the point and pick that beautiful brand of yours and share that value with our audience. So thank you for being here.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: Thanks for having me, Ryan. I'm really excited about this.
[00:01:58] Speaker A: Absolutely. And you know, I like to kind of reframe things a little bit. Right. You know, many, many employees feel excluded, not because of policies, but because of unspoken habits, inside jokes, tones or norms that send messages about who fits in and who doesn't. You know, these unwritten rules can undermine inclusion and trust, you know, without anyone really realizing it. I've seen this many, many times in different businesses that I'm helping transform change.
There is a culture there that sometimes excludes people. And first big question I have for you, why are the unspoken rules of culture things that are never really written down, you know, often more powerful than the official values or mission statement?
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Because what's on paper matters less than how you're being Treated on a daily basis.
And let's. Let's be real, okay? Policies and procedures. Nobody reads that handbook until something happens. That's the only time you open the handbook. I mean, I know every company makes you sign the. I got the handbook. Nobody reads that thing until they're reprimanded or something happens. And maybe they're about to lose their job, and now they need to go look and see what those, those policies and procedures are about. But how someone is treated every single day, it means everything to them. You know, most people walk into the office wearing a whole suit of armor, and they're just trying to deflect all the BS coming at them every day. They are, they are trying to say the right things, they're trying to dress the right way, they're trying to speak correctly. They're. They're doing all of these things just to be accepted into a group. And it leaves little time for them to actually do the work that you hired them to do. So I think it's really incumbent upon companies to shut it down. You have to shut down those unspoken things that are happening, but you have to be aware that they're happening. And I believe that is really where managers and leaders really come into play and look around and look at the feedback that they're getting, ask for the feedback, and then create change in that environment.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Very, very well said. You know, I can agree with you that employee handbook typically is not really understood, studied, or even really referred to until something's gone horribly wrong.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Right.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: So that. That is true. And, and from what I've seen, even early in my career, when I was an employee in different businesses, there was a culture, a type of, you know, society within the business. And if you don't do it their way or if you're not in their club, you know, you miss out on stuff or, you know, maybe you become the joke. And, and that can be pretty damaging to a business. The culture, the life of the business. You know, big belief of mine is, you know, the business doesn't make the people. The people make the business. So if the leaders are just oblivious to the culture that's within, it's not going to turn out to be the business they envision.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: Not at all.
[00:04:55] Speaker A: You know, that that leads to a little bit of a deeper question. What are some of those subtle signs like tone, habits or, or rituals that can make somebody feel left out without even noticing?
[00:05:07] Speaker B: They are the really, really simple things. Someone is isolated. You know, you notice the group's always going to lunch, but this person Never goes with the group or after work, after work, drinks, they're never invited, or they never show up in meetings, they don't speak there. I mean, if you really pay attention when you're in a meeting, you have the same people talking about, you know, same people, very extroverted, have a lot of things to share. But then you have people that either every time they try to speak, they're cut off, they're cut off every single time. Or that person that gives their ideas or contributes to the meeting and nobody says anything. But then five minutes later somebody comes back and says the same thing a little different. And everybody's like, that is amazing.
So all of those things add up on a daily basis. And, and if you're coming up against that every single day, you just isolate, you go into yourself, you don't want to hang out with the group. And here's the thing too, that someone in the group has to recognize is, are we actually inviting this person?
You know, I had a, I had a company that I worked with out of Boston and this is a very male dominated culture and they had one woman there in this, in this one particular, in their sales group and she never was invited, you know, and they, they, they told me, well, we just assumed she didn't want to come with us. And I said, well, did anybody ever invite her? And she, she really disliked being in her work environment simply because she didn't feel like she belonged. And belonging is a basic need that we all have.
And let's face it, we're at work a lot of times more than we're at home. And so to be in an environment every day where you feel as if you don't belong and it causes all kinds of things like depression, you know, and, and just despondency and your morale is low, so that means your productivity is low. So I mean, a lot of leaders will say, I don't have time to deal with those things that are more along the lines of soft skills. But I am telling you, if you don't deal with them, you're not going to have the culture that you are trying to create.
[00:07:19] Speaker A: I could not agree with that point more because truth is a real leader. There's a difference between a leader and a boss. A boss is, you know, we're gonna go this direction, go that way, do this, do that, do this, do that. A leader is someone who can understand the position everyone's in and support them, provide them with everything they need so they can be as successful as possible. Sometimes what they need to be provided with is a good culture. Recognition, appreciation.
[00:07:47] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:07:47] Speaker A: And community.
Right. I find those things to be extremely important in any kind of dynamic, especially business. Right. You know, a belief of mine is, you know, business is no place for drama. Well, then support everyone.
[00:08:01] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: Make sure that everyone can act as a family, a team, and you're going to have a different level of output and productivity from your team because of that. When people are comfortable and confident that the person to the right, the person to their left will have their back, act as their shield and their sword as well.
Yeah. They're going to move with confidence and an effort that is unseen a lot of the time. So I could not agree with you more. That's such a powerful point. And, you know, this is a great segue into how can someone start to shine a light on those individual, you know, those invisible cultural barriers without being labeled as different or negative? You know, a lot of the businesses I deal with, you've got people from all over the world, different countries, different backgrounds, different cultures, and it's like a big melting pot.
[00:08:47] Speaker B: How.
[00:08:48] Speaker A: How do you really shine a light on those cultures without making everyone feel weird about it?
[00:08:55] Speaker B: I think you have to be transparent from the beginning.
You have to let your employees know what is going to fly here and what is not going to fly here. Because here's the thing, I'm really big on personal culture, Right. And this is where the individual takes responsibility for who they are, how they show up for themselves, how they show up for others. Right. It is the, the vibe, the energy that you bring in the room and the impact that you. That you leave behind.
It's super important that you are, first of all, hiring people or developing the personal culture that someone has. Because personal culture is just company culture at scale. You have all of these people, all of these different thoughts, ideas, values, beliefs, all of these things that we, we carry with us as a, as a single person, and then we're mixing it with all these other people.
So you're already depending on who you hire. You're already creating a culture based on just these individuals.
So you have to really put things in place like transparency, vulnerability, the creating trust. Like, those things are really big deals. Because when I know that if I can come to you, even if there's a power dynamic, right, because there's usually a power dynamic. But I can come and say this thing happened and I'm not sure how to handle it, and if I can go to HR or I can go to another leader and I actually get feedback, they actually do something.
I know that I'm in a culture where I can speak up and there's not going to be retaliation, but you have to set the stage for that. It can't just, it, it does not happen organically. It truly takes leadership to put it in place and then it's everybody's responsibility to uphold the culture.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: I love that you addressed a few major points that I use on a regular basis, transparency included with effective communication, a big, big requirement of mine. Whenever I deal with a new client or step into a new role, whatever it may be, it's, I make my expectations clear, I make my standards clear, I make my vision clear, I make my non negotiables clear.
And it's, it's extremely important to have that, to express those boundaries, to show what your intent is and to keep that door of transparency and communication open. Because if you can block that off, if you short the opportunity for someone to speak up to, to come to leadership with questions, concerns as well, you're also creating a negative culture. Your intent might be pure, but your actions don't follow suit and create the culture that you imagine. Right. You know, this is such a powerful conversation. I love where this is going and just how much value this really packs. So to our audience, we'll be right back. Up next, Risha dives into the personal side of belonging. The, the masks we wear at work just to fit in and what it cost us in the long run. So we'll be right back. Get some coffee, stretch out.
See you soon on the next segment.
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And we are back. And I'm still here with Risha Grant. And in this segment, we're talking about something every professional has felt at some point, the pressure to wear a mask.
This topic is very, very important to me because early in my career I had to help rewrite a culture in a business where everyone felt forced to wear that mask. And whether it's tone, style or personality, so many people hide who they really are at work so they can fit in and get through the day. But that kind of Hiding comes at a serious cost.
So, Risha, so glad to have you here. I'm excited to dive into this one with you.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: Yeah, let's do it.
[00:13:19] Speaker A: You know, employees often feel suppressed, you know, parts of their identity to survive. And I've been there myself, but I'm the type. I don't really care what you think of me, because my intentions are to help you win. Right. Not everyone feels that way. And that pressure drains authenticity, creativity, trust, and really prevents organizations from benefiting from their people's full potential. If you're wearing a mask, you can't really be the best you are. Right.
And, you know, first big question I got for you is, what are the fears or. Or pressures that cause people to put on a mask and. And hide who they really are?
[00:13:56] Speaker B: I think the biggest thing at work is that you feel like you could lose your job.
You know, if you don't fit in, this is it. And people have responsibilities. They have families to take care of. So if you're. If you don't fit in, if you're not acting like everyone else. And here's the thing, like, everybody wants you to be normal. What's. What's normal? And I. I actually hate the word normal because I feel like the people who invented the word didn't ask the rest of us for our opinion on it.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: Right, Exactly.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: So, no, nobody really fits into what's normal. And me personally, I grew up in Oklahoma, born and raised. I still live here in Oklahoma, but it felt suffocating from the standpoint of diversity.
And then me being a black woman, when I first got into the workforce, it was changed the way that I talk. I didn't want to sound like, am I sounding too black? Am I sounding too country? Am I professional enough? Am I wearing my hair in a way that makes everybody feel comfortable?
Am I talking about things that are of interest? You know, even being. Being bisexual, coming into the workplace and making. Using pronouns that were male pronouns so that nobody knew who I really was. And the toll that that took on me was.
It crushed me. Because what I realized is all these people around me that are really doing nothing to help my life at all. I am making them more important than I'm making myself, because I'm lying to me every day and going home and looking in the mirror and knowing that you are not presenting as who you are.
It was devastating. But it took me so long to figure it out, because when you wear a mask for a long time, you. You start to flow in that mask. You know, you're like, you're doing your thing, and you're trying to make sure that. That you're hitting all. All the points. But then when I got into entrepreneurship and I'm still going down this road, and, you know, you're. You're an entrepreneur, so, you know, there are really rough times for an entrepreneur. And so I thought, gosh, you know, I'm not making money. I'm about to lose my business. And if I'm going out, I'm going out as Risha.
I'm not going out as this other person that I've created to make it in the world, because I'm still not making it in the world. And when I decided to show up as me, fully authentically, I laughed more. The people around me laughed more. My career grew. I mean, it just. Everything took off, and I began to see the pieces fall in place.
[00:16:32] Speaker A: So you got me fired up with this one. I'm not gonna lie, because it hits home with me. Because truth is, I come from the bottom end of the lower class in Battle Creek, Michigan. My older brother's the first one in our family to have a college education.
And I started my career as a certified welding technician. I worked into becoming a master welder, and then I took those skills, and I took over a company.
Not a small one either. It was generating several hundred million dollars a year by the time I left that company as director of operations. And truth is, I kept finding myself trying to speak with a more developed vocabulary, trying to dress nice or fit in with all these people that have master's degrees and educational backgrounds. But reality is, I was there because I had an attitude they didn't have.
I was there because I put the work and they didn't have. You know, I. I put in the. The. The grind that they just didn't want to put in.
[00:17:31] Speaker B: It's right.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: And it taught me I can just be me.
[00:17:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:35] Speaker A: My work ethic, my integrity, my belief system, my, you know, my nature of servitude is going to speak much louder than any.
Any assumed value from other people's perspective and, like, of me.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: Yes. And think about it.
[00:17:51] Speaker A: Weird dynamic, but it's.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Yes, it is. And if you had shown up as yourself, how many employees also would have just really fell into that? Like, this guy is so cool.
Like, he is just. He is just him. And I try to encourage people, but people are scared. They are still scared to do that in their companies. And I think, whereas we had taken some steps forward here in 2025, we have gone way back.
Almost everybody that I speak to is scared. They're scared of the America that we live in.
They're scared of being who they are. If they could hide every single thing about themselves to not stick out in any way, they would do it.
And that is like, that's heartbreaking to me because we were actually making strides. I mean, and it's something that Ryan is buried so deep within people. Even now with my own TV show, I hear myself talking, and I'm a ball of nerves because I hear the country, you know, I hear the Oklahoma girl, small town Oklahoma girl come out in my speech. And TV is a very precise way to look at all your flaws all at once. Right.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: And so definitely can be intimidating. That's.
[00:19:01] Speaker B: Yes. I mean, because you sit there and you just kind of pick yourself apart. But that is how people feel every day in the. In the workplace is that people are looking at me. They can see through me. They're going to see this thing that makes them feel uncomfortable around me, when truly that thing that is maybe not making them feel uncomfortable, it's maybe going to make them feel seen also, because I found that when you show up as yourself, the people around you relax.
And I mean, I've just created some amazing friendships that I would not have had had. I kept wearing that mask every day.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: I can definitely understand that. You know, something that really sticks with me is I believe my purpose in a lot of ways, is just to love those around me, to love other people, to show a kindness, to be a light that just isn't norm. Right. So to me, it is not my place to judge anybody for any reason. It's just my job to love them and support them and to try to lift them up, motivate, inspire, and. And just share that kindness that has been shown to me. I mean, no day is promised to us, so why waste it with putting somebody else down?
[00:20:11] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:20:11] Speaker A: I make somebody else feel alienated, excluded.
[00:20:15] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:20:15] Speaker A: And it speaks to me a lot because it's like, okay, well, you do.
[00:20:18] Speaker B: Not have scary under. Right. And I mean, you do not have to understand someone's situation or agree with them in order to show your humanity. And that's one of the biggest issues that I see is I can't support you, I can't like you, I can't hang out with you. Because that means I'm in agreement with your lifestyle.
No, that means I have nothing to do with your lifestyle. I have enough going on with myself to take care of. And I get to humanize you and me. And yes, I can go out and have dinner with you. And I don't care if you want to wear a furry costume when you get home at night. And that's what you do. That is your life.
That is your life. And that's what we have to, we have to get away from, is thinking that I have to be in total agreement with everything in your life. I mean, think about your close friends. How much do you agree with your. I, I go out with my girlfriends and we sit there and disagree over dinner and drinks for two hours and can't wait to do it again the next month. Right. But then when we meet a stranger, all of a sudden we can't be even in conversation with them.
And I love talking to people that are different. I learned so much.
[00:21:26] Speaker A: Exactly. I, I love testing my philosophies, my beliefs, my, my system of thinking. Because reality is.
We are different in so many ways, but we are alike in many, many more. We're all living in the same world. We all have a personality, a heart, a brain, desires, dreams. We all have these things. There's so much more that brings us together than should separate us. And I find that to be almost comical at times that it's still so easy for people to lose sight of that. But yeah, it, it's unfortunate. And, and I see that people like yourself are out here trying to raise awareness for this, trying to present to the world that we can love, respect each other.
[00:22:10] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: Just because it doesn't have to be conditional, it can be unconditional. Doesn't matter what you believe in, doesn't matter what you think, doesn't matter what your lifestyle is. You want to go home and dress however you want. That doesn't matter. What matters is that you're a person like me. We're on the same planet, and we both have hopes, dreams, and desires.
Why not live and let live?
[00:22:28] Speaker B: Exactly. Because all of these things that separate us, quite honestly, they're going away. I mean, you have one in six people marrying outside of their race.
You have, I don't know, what is it, one in three or four marrying outside of their religion. You have one in three people identifying as LGBQTIA plus. Right. You have all these things happening, so it's very likely that you are going to interact, that you may have a child that's mixed or a grandchildren that's mixed, or somebody in your lineage. Like these things aren't going away. We're getting closer and closer. And at some point we've got to realize we are so much stronger together than we are divided.
[00:23:08] Speaker A: That's. That is. I definitely agree with you there now, Rich. This is such a powerful, authentic conversation, and it really speaks to the authenticity that's going to be in your book and your keynotes and to our viewers. How can they find you?
[00:23:21] Speaker B: You can reach. I'm sorry, you can find the book on Amazon.com be better than your BS. And then I'm all over social media, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, even tick tock sparsely, but I'm there. And that's. It's all under Reisha Grant, so I'm easy to find.
[00:23:38] Speaker A: Thank you so much for putting that out there. So hopefully our audience is able to find you, reach out to you, and consume more of that love that you're expressing. And coming up, what happens when culture change is forced from the top down?
Risha reveals why real change never starts in the boardroom. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.
You have found your way back to the bottom line, and we're here with Risha Grant diving into a challenge that frustrates leaders everywhere. Culture change, you know, when it's forced from the top down, it almost always fails. So why does that happen? And how can we, you know, as leaders, do it differently? So, Risha, I'm glad to have you here. I'm excited to talk about this topic with you. I know I've got a lot of philosophies on it, but I'm so excited to hear what you have to say on this.
[00:24:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that it fails because leaders don't involve employees in the process.
When you. Whenever you come in with a directive and you don't listen to your leaders. Now, I played basketball, played all the way through D1, right. And what I learned about being a player is that the coach will go out there and tell you to run a play, but they're not asking you why the play is not working.
And so at some point, somebody on the court has to say, listen, I'll take my chances getting pulled out of the game. This is not working. We've got to do something else.
And if a leader comes in and just hands down directives without understanding, without asking the people that are on the front lines, the people that are doing the things, it's like that show, the Undercover Boss show.
You know, it's you, you. They usually come in and they go through that whole process and they're like, wow, this doesn't work at all. Nobody bothered to ask the people that were doing the work. So I believe when you are going to do any type of culture change or make any change within your company, ask the people that are being affected for the best way to do it.
Even if we go back to the policies and procedures handbook, put together an advisory board that will look at that thing and say, oh, you know, this policy kind of excludes this group of people, or it's going to make this group of people feel bad or whatever it is. When you have more voices around the room, people are going to catch things that you cannot catch as a single person.
So I believe that's why they all fail. Like you. You hand down a directive and you are not asking them, you know, does this make sense for the role that you're in? Does this make sense for the department that you run?
It just, it just goes up in flames. You have to ask people, you have to be inclusive of the people that you've hired in order to make that thing work.
[00:26:22] Speaker A: You know, it's funny because a lot of the time when I deal with clients, I tend to be a force of change for the culture, atmosphere, culture and just lifestyle within a business very much changes the impact and the productivity, the profit margin, everything.
So my biggest philosophy and the same methodology I've used from the time I started as a consultant, I'll do it till the day I die. It's, it's got to start with the people.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:26:48] Speaker A: If you have an idea of how you want the culture of your business to be, bring the people together, ask the questions, ask how they would roll it out and ask what they think about it all together, because they're going to have the answers. They live in the culture day to day. When you were executive level C suite, you're not dealing with everyone on a day to day basis. So you don't actually get to see the culture entirely. So if you're making assumptions on how it should be, that can be a problem. So the way I've always rolled it out is, hey, let's all get together, let's pull these groups together. Different meetings. It could be like essentially quarterly meetings for different groups. Hey, here's what we're trying to do. What are your thoughts exactly? And it's great to open this type of thing up anonymously.
Give everyone an opportunity to fill out a form or to send an email, whatever it is, and control it with anonymity. Because now people will give you the reality of what's going on. They fear retaliation or some kind of judgment. They're not going to be honest with you. And that culture change is not going to Happen. But it does lead to a question.
[00:27:47] Speaker B: I love that you brought that up. Because I use a. And I tell everybody about this. They should be giving me some type of referral fee. But it's called mental meter.com because it allows people to anonymously answer questions. I use it in all of my keynote speeches, and I get to understand really what people are feeling. They'll put anything up there, you know, And I. And when I see, you know, wow, there's about 10 people that are saying this same thing. I can take that back to the company and say, you know, if you look at these results, you're. This is an issue within your company.
And so it works for me to speak to in the moment, but it also works for them to say, maybe we need training around this thing.
So I, I just, I think that leaders have to lead from a servant perspective. Yes, absolutely. And if you lead from a servant perspective, then you know that I need to go in and serve the people. The other thing is, I think leaders. And I've dealt with some really big companies, and so I tell them all the time, do you actually know the people you're leading? And most of them will tell me, risha, I lead 500 people. I don't have time to know these people. I don't care if it takes you two years and you meet with everybody for 15 minutes.
You have to try to at least know the people. You cannot coach a team to success if you don't know how the team operates.
So I know it's a huge tall order.
And leaders look at me crazy in some of these big companies, but I'm like, you have got to know you. Does. Does someone on your team have a sick kid? Are they going through a divorce? Are. People are so much more than who they are at work. And even if you don't want to dive into all the personal things, just saying, hey, how's your kid doing? That soccer game this weekend changes the game. It literally changes the game.
You show me that you care. If I walk by your desk and I see your kid in some type of sports uniform, it clicks for me to say, hey, how's the team doing this year?
Or I see that somebody is celebrating a birthday. You know, my mom worked for this company. I swear was probably 30 years ago.
And every year, me and my sister's birthday, they sent us a card with $5 in it. I have never forgotten that company.
They. It's the little things that matter. It's. It's.
They are so. I mean, takes you two Seconds. But people think you're the greatest boss in the world. Greatest leader in the world. The company's amazing. And when you ask them why, they will tell you those little things. They're not going to say those huge things. They're going to say, wow. Because you know what, on my kid's birthday or my, my sister's company, her boss shows up at my nephew's basketball games.
[00:30:21] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:30:21] Speaker B: I mean, yes, he trusts loyalty. Yes, he shows up, he will ask about the game. I mean, though my nephew's 17 now, he's never forgotten this guy. So it's the little things, they, they matter a lot.
[00:30:37] Speaker A: I could not agree with you more. A previous colleague of mine, he was, you know, he was, he was the chief, he was the chief executive officer for a company as I took over as director of operations. And you know, the team very much looked up to him. They saw him as the man charge, the shield, the sword, all of it. Yeah, but he was regularly just in his office, so I would stop him once a month and say, hey, walk around the shop, shake some hands, fist bump, ask, how you doing? You know, just have a little bit of camaraderie and watch the productivity skyrocket. And it works when people feel like they're seen recognized, especially from leadership changes everything. But yes, that does lead to another question. How can everyday employees, not just executives, be a part of driving real culture change that actually matters? Because, you know, we think executives and leaders have all the power, but I think the many can actually drive that change faster. So what are your thoughts?
[00:31:32] Speaker B: Yeah, in my book, I talk about this because I do believe that these kinds of culture changes come from the top down. But I'm an advocate for the bottom up because leaders have so many things going on, so many things that they've got to keep eyes on. And while it's super important for them to connect with their team, you, the most entry level person in that company, also has a responsibility to uphold the culture.
So if you see someone being bullied, I think that you see something, you say something, right? It's like at the airport, you know, I think if you notice someone's very introverted, but they have great ideas and in a meeting you could easily say, ryan, you shared a great idea with me earlier. Do you mind sharing it with the group or do you mind if I share it for you?
There are so many things that you can do. Someone is not getting credit for an idea. You can say, yeah, that was a great idea. When Susan said it earlier, you know, those things go a long way with making sure that it's not just leadership's responsibility. I don't believe that. I believe everybody has a responsibility to treat people with kindness, with respect, with equality, with equity. All the things that you can do on a daily basis. Because you may be the only person that smiled at that other person in 24 hours.
You never know. You saying good morning may be the kindest thing that someone has said to them since they were at work yesterday.
So it does not take a lot from you to humanize another person or to show your humanity toward another person. You can never make me believe that a smile goes a long way. And I will tell you from I've conducted over 100,000 interviews, conversations, and research data.
And one of the things that comes back all the time is I think my manager doesn't like me because they never smile or talk to me. You would think at our ages that that would not be something that is a big deal, but it is. I mean, I have people in their 40s, 50s, 60s saying, My manager has never smiled at me. And when I go and talk to the manager, they say, oh, my gosh, I had all these things going on. I didn't even realize that I wasn't smiling. I didn't realize that I wasn't speaking, or, yes, I was on the elevator with that person. But, you know, I just left the hospital because my wife's in the hospital or my husband's in the hospital. You know, we have all of these things happening.
And so I think it makes it even more important that we just smile. We say, good morning. How's your day going? You know, and that is everybody's responsibility.
[00:34:04] Speaker A: You know, it's funny, because I can see how some might say, oh, well, you still got to be firm. Yes, you can be firm and fair. You can be compassionate and really passionate about the business. I mean, it's. It's simple to have clear expectations and be friendly, be kind, be charismatic, pay attention, give recognition when it's due. Sometimes give recognition even when it's not due because you don't know what somebody's day has really shaped up to be. And your impact, your very small, kind gesture could change everything. But, yes, people think sometimes, you know, you can't be too friendly with your employees. Fair. There is a balance. There's a dichotomy that has to be there. Absolutely.
[00:34:48] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:34:49] Speaker A: But there is no reason not to give two seconds of kindness.
[00:34:53] Speaker B: No.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: And you can be firm when expectations are crossed. I mean, that's. That's simple. As that.
[00:34:58] Speaker B: Exactly. And you could be talking to somebody on their worst day of their life.
You, you just have no idea what that person is coming with on that day.
[00:35:08] Speaker A: So.
[00:35:08] Speaker B: Yes, I do. I agree. And I think leaders are scared of authenticity for that reason, because some people take it completely off the rails. Right. But if you really look at it, those people are going to be far and few and far in between.
People will take advantage of it and you know who that is and you know how to deal with it. But overall, people, when they find a culture that they don't want to leave, they're going to uphold that thing and they are also going to make sure that every person that they're involved with is upholding it, because when it crashes, we all lose.
So I tell companies all the time, you got to get people out that don't want to be better. You've got to get them out. Because if you allow them to keep doing the things that they're doing, bringing down the morale, bullying other people, all of those things, then people start to think that matters more than their kindness, that matters more than the work that they're doing. And so you have to consistently take out those people and, and make sure that you are building with people who want to be better than the bs.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: Yep, Good numbers don't matter if somebody else is negatively impacting other people's numbers. That's my thought on it. And to our audience up next, Risha reveals the ultimate leadership skill that builds trust faster than any corporate initiative. Storytelling. So stick around. We'll be right back.
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We are here at our final segment. We're getting personal and powerful. Risha Grant is here to talk about why storytelling isn't just a leadership skill. It's the heart of human connection. When leaders share their own personal journey, they give permission to others to be real, too.
And I've seen this time and time again in business where skilled leader is vulnerable. They let people in. They share their experience and their story. And it gives Others the freedom to move confidently. So, Risha, such a pleasure to have you here. I'm glad that we were able to do four segments together today and to cover some of these very powerful topics. I'm so excited to talk about this because it's not something people really think about.
[00:37:53] Speaker B: Right?
[00:37:55] Speaker A: So, you know, leaders often fear vulnerability. We think vulnerability makes us weak. But authenticity builds deeper trust than any authority ever could. So, yes, to me, it seems like storytelling bridges the gap between title and team, creating cultures grounded in humanity, and then we can share that growth. Right. So to get right down to it, why do so many leaders feel pressure to appear perfect instead of being open about their struggles and. And. And the lessons they've had to learn?
[00:38:25] Speaker B: Well, I think leaders make. They. They think that it makes them look not as powerful as they are, and it could not be further from the truth. People do not connect with statistics. They connect with stories. I can hear myself in your story. I've spent 27 years in DEI, which is a really tough topic for people. But when I tell stories, it doesn't matter it what race a person is, what gender a person is. I tell a story that people come up to me and say, I had the same grandma you had. Her name was this. And she did this same thing for me. And it cuts through all of those barriers that we have. When I hear a leader be vulnerable enough to tell me a story, especially one where they don't come out looking that great, it allows me to say, hey, I can do this too.
You know, that kind of thing happened to me, and I see this person still excelling. So when we can hear those stories, though, and I always. It works so well in speeches. I don't get up there and act like I have it all, and I know it all. I get up there and tell you all the ways that I carry BS and all the ways that I messed up and all the ways that I'm working to fix those things.
When people can connect with you, they are going to listen. They're going to know they can do it too. And I truly believe in lifting each other up. So maybe that's why I have such a strong passion and passion about it.
[00:39:53] Speaker A: But.
[00:39:53] Speaker B: But I truly believe that leaders need to show that vulnerability in order to connect with the people that they're leading.
[00:40:00] Speaker A: I agree with that deeply. You know, it's funny because like I talked about earlier in this show is kind of my background. I don't have a master's in business. I really don't. I have a master's in trial by fire, learning how to learn, learning how to show up and work harder than anybody else. I like to share my story because it makes other people kind of help realize it's possible for them too.
[00:40:26] Speaker B: Right.
[00:40:27] Speaker A: There's nothing you have to have in order to achieve your dreams other than the will to do it and the desire to learn and grow. And that's. That's my hot take on the topic. But it's powerful to share that story because then people can connect with you. See, truth is about, it's same with sales as it is leadership. People don't want to buy or hire from people they don't feel like they know like and trust.
People don't want to serve under and follow people they don't think they know like and trust. So if you don't share who you are, your personal journey, it's kind of hard to feel like, you know, we can know you, like you and trust you. But yeah, you know, how does sharing your personal story actually build deeper trust and connection within the people you. Right. You know, we can talk about, you know, it's a great thing to do, but what is the dynamic of that that actually makes people connect again?
[00:41:15] Speaker B: I believe it's seeing yourself in those stories. It's in seeing that I don't have to be perfect to ascend into leadership. I can have.
[00:41:24] Speaker A: You got to say that again. That's that right there.
[00:41:27] Speaker B: You do not have to be perfect. Yes. To ascend into leadership. And I think sometimes we look at leaders and we have that halo effect. Right. Like, I see you, you look like some God to me. How did you get here where you're leading all of these people? And when you talk to that person, you hear a Ryan Herpin story. Right. I was a welder. This is what I did. And people don't think that they can have a blue collar kind of job and then go and lead this major workforce. But when they hear the story, when they get to see all of the things that have happened because you shared that story with them, they know they can do it too.
And so I, and I think one of the biggest things that we have to do as people is not, it's not so much learning, Learning is super important, but it's also unlearning, you know, unlearning the things that we've been taught by the people and the institutions in our lives that may not be true.
And that's, I think that's really difficult because we trust our family, we trust our parents, we trust all These people we trust, the institutions that we. That we went to, the schools and things like that. But it doesn't mean that everything that you know about a person or a group of people is true. So when you hear a leader share stories and things that are not just, oh, I'm great, but, hey, this happened. I had to work my way from the bottom. I grew up like this. I grew up poor, I grew up without. I'm the first person to go to college in my family. When you can hear all of those things, you know, you've got this. You can do it. It's not going to be easy, but this person did it, so I can do it as well.
[00:43:08] Speaker A: You know, it reminds me of limiting beliefs. Right. People tend to believe they can only go as far as somebody else has.
Right. There's. There's this power in doing and addressing and fighting against the unknown. Right. And moving forward in a path that has yet to be paved or traveled by somebody else.
There's a lot of limiting beliefs, and it's all based on the unknown. But to me, anything is possible if you really put your mind to it. I believe in the ability to manifest anything in your life.
[00:43:39] Speaker B: Me, too.
[00:43:40] Speaker A: It would be a shame for somebody else to believe in you more than you believe in.
[00:43:43] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:43:43] Speaker A: But at the same time, as a leader, share that.
Show your team, show your employees, show the culture, who you are, what you've had to do to get here, because they're going to respect it. It's going to grow trust, it's going to grow loyalty, and that real loyal leader.
It helps transform a job into a career. And then you've got people that want to be behind you. They want to help lift you up for a very, very long time. And it does kind of raise another question here, though. What boundaries should leaders really set when sharing their story? So it inspires and builds, you know, the team rather than kind of oversharing. Right. Because, yeah, I've definitely met some leaders that overshare and hurt their ability to lead. So where's that line? Where's those.
[00:44:29] Speaker B: Yeah, that. No, that's a tough question, right? Because, yes, there are people that.
They are just oversharers by nature.
I think if something is. I think something is out of place when you begin to.
Gosh, when you really. When you really begin to talk about it in a way that makes other people uncomfortable, you know, so if you're sharing a story about something that goes into something sexual, you don't want to hear that with your boss. Right.
That is tmi. I don't definitely hear that.
I think if you can frame it from the lens of this is something that. That's going to make people better. This is something that's going to build trust, you know, especially when something happens in the current company that you're leading where you didn't make a good decision to be able to go to your people and say, hey, yo, this just happened. This is totally on me. This is why I thought it would work. It didn't work. I want you to know that we are working to fix it. But when you go in and you start or blaming so many other people, that's also not something that needs to be shared.
I think that as a leader, you get all the wins. Like, everybody's going to come and say, oh, this person, our leader was amazing. You know, our. Our earnings are off the chart and all these things. But also when you lose, you need to be able to take that, Take that also and carry it and not blame others. So I believe it's in the message, you know, so the. The power is in the message, and the message needs to be inspirational. I always ask myself, is this going to move people forward?
You know, you want to know that it's going to move people forward. You know, that it's going to. You want to know that it's going to inspire. If people are going to go talk about me behind my back, they're going to be like, ooh, I don't want to make sure I don't run into the CEO because he just told me all this stuff about his divorce that he's going through. Right.
So not to say they don't get to be human, but I do believe that there are some boundaries when it comes to being the leader, because you can humanize yourself without making people feel embarrassed, grossed out, like maybe you're talking about other people behind their backs.
[00:46:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really good point. I think it's got to be objective based. If your objective is to inspire, to motivate, to, you know, connect, keep it within those lines of that's the purpose. You start getting off into some of the weird stuff, you're going to make people uncomfortable. You're going to do the opposite of what you're trying to do. But, Rachel, this conversation has been absolutely powerful, you know, to our viewers that really want to connect with you. Where can they find you? And in addition to that, what is going on with Risha Grant? What's coming up? What do you got in the pipeline for the people?
[00:47:18] Speaker B: Well, you can find me on all the socials under Risha Grant. I'm pretty easy to find. You can find my book on Amazon, Be better than your bs. And as far as what's coming up, I am just trying to get back out here, here in the speaking world because that's where I love to be. But I do have a show on Now Media that airs every Sunday evening at 6pm and it's called Be Better Than your BS. So I'd love for you to tune in to that and hit me up on social media and tell me what you think about it.
[00:47:45] Speaker A: Risha, thank you so much for joining us today on the Bottom Line. Your insights, they help remind us that leadership isn't about perfection. It's about persistence, presence, courage and connection. Today we explored how unspoken culture shapes belonging and the cost of hiding who we really are, and how storytelling builds bridges that policies never can. You know the Bottom Line?
Real leadership starts with humanity. I'm Ryan Herpin. Thank you for watching the Bottom Line. And until next time, keep leading with purpose and always get to the human side of success.
