Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Success isn't given, it's earned. And earning it means becoming the person who deserves it. The bottom line is where we cut through the chaos to simplify success, uncovering the strategies, mindset and resilience it takes to win. Real stories, expert insights, and practical tools. Because the only way to the top is by putting in the work.
[00:00:21] Speaker B: This is the bottom line. Welcome to the Bottom Line. I'm your host, Ryan Herpin, and today we're we're going to be talking about a topic that's deeply personal, often overwhelming, and incredibly important. Family law. Now, this isn't a typical topic that I would dig into, but it's becoming relevant in a lot of ways in my current surroundings. So this is a great topic for me to dig into and to share with those around me even. But whether it's divorce, custody battles, or protecting your rights as a parent, family law issues hit hard. And in those moments, you need more than just a lawyer. You need the right advocate. Someone who understands the legal landscape but also knows how to guide you with confidence and clarity through one of the most difficult seasons of your life.
I'm going to go through some of my understanding and my perspectives of this. There's a few major points that I want to really address that I think could help us dig into and understand the complexities with finding the right representation when dealing with family law matters. Because family law matters are often extremely emotional, personal and urgent.
Family law cases don't usually arise when life is calm. They show up in the most stressful times.
Most people experience this in, in the same way. It's really hectic, crazy chaotic, and it's, it's very stressful, right? Whether it's divorce, custody battles, spousal support or, or parent or parental rights. Right.
These aren't abstract legal situations. These are moments that touch on someone's identity, their livelihood and relationships. It's not about filing paperwork or following protocol. It's about navigating intense emotional terrain under pressure.
The urgency is real. Court dates, filing deadlines, and decisions about children or property. They can come at you pretty fast. The combination of emotional intensity and time sensitive action makes it even more important to have someone on your side who understands how to manage the, the legal and human elements of the situation.
I cannot stress that enough. It's more than just having legal advice, right? Choosing a family law attorney isn't just a, it's not just a legal decision. It is very, very personal. Right? Hiring a family law attorney is one of the most intimate professional decisions someone can make, in my opinion. There's other out there. But when I really chew on this, it's like hiring someone to fix your roof. It's definitely not like hiring someone to fix your roof or file your taxes. This is someone who will learn about you personally. They're going to learn about your relationships, your finances, and possibly even your parenting style. That kind of access requires pretty significant trust. They're going to see the good, bad, and the ugly. That's the reality of it. And it's better to have someone you can trust rather than just someone who understands code and law. You need to have someone who can make you feel comfortable. You don't want to feel like you're being judged. You want to feel like the person you're dealing with has your best interest in mind. The best attorneys are more than just knowledgeable. They're people you can open up to. Ideally, you need to open up to them. If you don't, that could lead into much bigger problems, especially down the line. It's not going to help your case, it's going to hurt it.
They're clear communicators, strong advocates, and calm in the storm. When someone chooses their legal representation in a family law case, they're choosing a partner who will help guide them through one of life's most complex and emotional journeys.
It's sad, but it's real. This type of thing happens. Life gets crazy, relationships struggle, people split, and. And that has to be handled in the right way. You know, from what I've seen, there's a lot of divorces that are ugly.
It's like revenge. It's like trying to get after each other. But it doesn't always have to be that way. And with the representation you have, they can help set the tone or defend from. From crazy attacks. Right. A strong advocate can bring clarity, confidence, and calm during chaos. When life feels like it's unraveling, when you're for, you know, your future feels very, very uncertain, as it would in a situation. A strong advocate can change everything. You know, someone with a lot of experience can give you clarity, they can give you vision, they can give you a target objective. They can give you an idea of where things are going to go before they get there. Just on experience, the feeling that, you know, they've been through this. Right.
They won't take away the stress entirely, but they can help carry the weight. A good family law attorney gives you a roadmap where really, when you feel lost, they explain what to expect and what's really realistic. We have a lot of misinterpretations understandings and feelings about how things may go, but they help organize that silence the chaos and keep you confident in what's going to happen.
That kind of clarity also builds the confidence. Instead of reacting to chaos, you start to move with purpose. Right. You're not just surviving the process, you're navigating. That's the difference between a good advocate and just someone there to get a check. You want someone who is willing and able to navigate both the complexities of law and emotional distress. Really. They don't just fight for your interest, they help you reclaim your sense of control. And it's kind of a way that I help, you know, it helps me kind of look at. Right. Many people don't know to look for their, what to look for in their legal representation and, and it's easy to feel overwhelmed. You know, before I started really diving into this topic and understanding a little bit more, it was chaotic for me to understand. It was, it was a little complex. You know, I'm very blessed that in my life I don't currently have a need for a family law attorney, but I do know people that are in need of a family law attorney. So let's be honest, most people aren't prepared to hire a lawyer until they need. Right. And when the time comes, they're often already in a highly emotional, overwhelmed state. They don't know what questions to ask. But you know, what, what really applies, the value, what they're not. They have no idea what to look for, what's going to make the difference, or how to tell the difference between a strong advocate and someone just going through the typical motions. Right. There's so much complexity there and it's not for us to interpret, but our job, or whoever's job it is to that's in the situation is to just find somebody that they can trust. Right. The confusion makes people vulnerable. They might hire the first attorney they find online or choose someone based on a price alone. But not all legal representation is created equal. And in family, making the wrong choice can have significant, lasting consequences. I've seen both sides of this bill. I've seen it go really, really well for one parent, really poor for the other. I've also seen it go where it's pretty fair and it's. They're able to operate with the best interest of everyone wins, no one loses. I've also seen it where the kids are weaponized in a divorce, or the kids are the main focus or their stability. Right. So it, it can go a different direction at any point. But you want to have the right representation that's prepared for that. That's why we're having this conversation really, is to give people the tools to make the informed, confident decision.
It's, when it's complex, it can be very difficult. But the wrong legal counsel can lead to unnecessary stress and long, long term consequences.
When you don't have the right person in your corner, the entire process becomes harder. Deadlines get missed, communication breaks down, and your needs may not be clearly or strongly represented in court. And that's a major issue. This can lead to unfair settlements, custody arrangements that don't serve the children's best interest, or legal battles that drag on for way, way longer than necessary. And I'm definitely excited to dig into this with our guest today because I'm sure he's going to have plenty of stories on this exact topic. But it goes even deeper than that because the emotional toll of poor representation doesn't go away when the case is over. It can affect someone's mental health, their finances, and their ability to move forward with confidence. Right. That's why choosing wisely isn't just important, it's critical. The attorney you choose doesn't just influence your case, they influence your future.
That's powerful. I mean, you've got to really understand that it's, it's, is that really something you want to find your representation for just out of price? Rather than their ability to execute, rather than their ability to get the results that best suit the children or best suit you? I mean, you know, it's, there's so much there.
Reality is, when you need a family law attorney, it's not always a pretty situation.
Sometimes it's not, you know, the end all, be all. Sometimes it's not complete disaster, chaos, bombs dropping. But there are situations where that attorney can help calm the storm and help us find the peace that we need in that stressful time. I've seen it go a lot of different ways like I addressed before. And I've seen some attorneys that did a fantastic job of mitigating the chaos and keeping their, their client with clear vision and an understanding of what's going to happen.
But today's guest brings that level of clarity, strength and experience. But before we get to the conversation, we're going to explain the first key question. Why should you really, what should you look for when hiring that family law attorney? Right. And I'm so excited to, to get the perspective of our guest because of his experience in the field. The legal system can be intimidating. The wrong choice can cost you, time, money, and even your peace of mind. But the right one, it can give you the power to move forward.
That can change everything.
So with our guest coming up, his experience is massive. His personality encapsulates what you really want out of a family law attorney, somebody who understands the complexities of law, personality trauma, and just going through the situation altogether. So stick around. This episode could change how you view legal support entirely.
We'll be right back on the Bottom Line.
[00:11:42] Speaker A: The bottom line is where we cut through the chaos to simplify success, uncovering the strategies, mindset, and resilience it takes to win. Real stories, expert insights, and practical tools. Because the only way to the top is by putting in the win.
[00:11:57] Speaker B: This is the bottom line. Welcome to the Bottom Line today. Joining me right now is Thomas Erb Jr. The owner of Herb Legal LLC, known throughout Northeast Ohio for his relentless advocacy and high ethical standards. Thomas, welcome to the show.
[00:12:16] Speaker C: Morning, Ryan. It's great to be here.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: I want to dive right in. This is. This is a topic that I'm quite curious about, and I would always recommend that people reach out to an expert like yourself with these types of important questions. So I want to get right to the bottom line. When someone is facing a family law matter, what should they look for in an attorney? It's a personal thing. So what should they try to find?
[00:12:41] Speaker C: Well, I think the most important thing, the most important question to ask when you're interviewing attorneys to represent you in a case is how much of your practice is devoted to the area of law that you. That you are seeking from that attorney. And so, for instance, I'm a family law attorney here in Ohio.
If the attorney's not doing more than 60% of their practice in the family law field, you probably should find somebody who's doing at least 60% or more. You wouldn't want somebody who's tried one murder case to be representing you if your life is on the line. The same thing goes for a family law attorney. You really need to have someone who's familiar with the court procedures, how things go, the rules, and that's the best way to guide somebody through it.
[00:13:28] Speaker B: I really like your point there. It's find somebody that's got a good history in that exact area. Right. You know, it's. I like that you used the murder case as an example. It's a very big extreme, but it's a good way to kind of set that playing field and make it really obvious. Right. You want to find somebody who's got the experience, who understands how to Navigate the complexities not just in the legal sense, but in the personal, emotional sense. Right. So leads me to another question. What. What are some of the common red flags people often overlook when hiring legal counsel?
[00:14:06] Speaker C: I think the first thing people should start when they're doing their research is to look into the Google reviews of the firm. That will give you some key insights into potential problems that that attorney has had in the past, especially their negative reviews. So if you see a lot of negative reviews or very few reviews of that attorney, that means that they're probably some issues in there that you might want to bring up. It doesn't necessarily disqualify them from representing you. But I would certainly make that my first line of questioning if I was interviewing that attorney. You know, for instance, if they have a couple of reviews that say, I can never get ahold of my attorney, I can't get a call back, he never answers my emails, that could be an outlier. It could be a pattern that the attorney has problems doing that. And you certainly don't want somebody handling your case who, who doesn't respond to you. You know, we have white glove service here. You call me, I'm getting back to you within 24 hours, unless I've lost a leg in the ocean. So you want to talk to somebody and you want to ask those questions when you're, when you're researching. And really, you shouldn't hire the first attorney that you interview. You should interview a couple of attorneys and ask these type of questions and sort of get a feeling for who your own personality might mesh with.
Some attorneys personalities might mesh better than yours with your personality.
[00:15:28] Speaker B: I think that's a really good point, and it's kind of funny because reviews are so overlooked. Yeah, I would say you're right on the money with that. I mean, even in my field, right before I work with a client as a consultant or before I go to a restaurant, whatever it may be, I'm not really good in the personal life of using those, those, you know, those reviews. My wife, on the other hand, my goodness, anywhere we go, she's digging into the reviews to see what kind of experience we can expect. Right. And I think when it comes to legal sense, I wouldn't have thought of, hey, let me look at the reviews, you know, But I think that's a. Probably a pretty good way to identify some of the consistent issues or just the overall quality of that. That legal counsel you would receive.
[00:16:09] Speaker C: Right.
[00:16:10] Speaker B: You know, sometimes you got people out there that will make a very small. They'll Turn a molehill into a mountain, for lack of a better way to put it. But what are some questions that should really. What. What questions should someone ask a potential attorney before hiring them to. To really understand what they're getting into?
[00:16:29] Speaker C: Well, besides the ones that I already mentioned, I think you really want to ask them what their familiarity is with the local court that they are practicing in. You know, we only operate in about three or four counties here in Northeast Ohio pretty consistently. And, you know, there's an old joke. A good lawyer knows the law. A great lawyer knows the judge. Right. That doesn't necessarily mean you're not drinking with the judge or playing golf with the judge, but if you're in front of the judge enough that you know how she's going to rule on certain issues, you can advise your client and, and let them know, hey, here's how she's going to rule on this particular issue. If we have a trial, or at least this is how I think she's going to roll. Obviously, you don't know for sure, but if you've taken her temperature enough on the same issues over and over and over again, you're going to kind of know how she looks at the area of the law, what she expects and what she expects to be presented. And it makes a real difference when we get people that come in from out of town and they don't know the judge, and they're expecting, you know, well, this is the way we do spousal support in our county. It's totally different county by county. And if you don't know what you're doing, you could be selling your. Your client down the river. That's a super important question. Second important question would be, how do you handle your case? Okay, are you a super aggressive person? Are you more of a, you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar type person? That's really important to flesh out at the very beginning of your representation. We have lots of people that ask me, tom, I want you to be super aggressive in my case, and that's fine. I have that ability to do that. However, once you go the super aggressive route, it is really, really hard to then pull that back, pull those reins in and try and resolve a case. You know, so generally, I like to start out with the honey to try and get the case resolved so that the clients can move on with their life. A lot of people think of divorce as revenge, right? But it's not about revenge. It's about. It's about resolution. It's about what's in the best interest of your children, you really want to put their focus first and. And not. I have to get every last dollar from my ex, you know, in order to separate. If you can put your time with your children as a priority, if you have children involved with your divorce, you're going to be much better off in the end.
[00:18:54] Speaker B: Man, you drop some serious gold nuggets right there. And I've got to highlight just some of the wisdom you put in that. And one thing in particular I didn't even think about is the already relationship that could already be developed between the judge and the legal counsel. Didn't even think about that. You know, it's just like working with a boss or a client. Over time, you get used to how they operate, the way they think, the way they react or respond to certain situations. I would say that's a really important dynamic to have and to understand if you've got legal representation, already has a relationship with a judge, or at least understands them a little bit. Yeah, there's a lot of benefit to that. I think that's. That's really, really big. Second, I. Can I go off a beaten script here? You know, it's. I agree with you. It seems like a lot of divorce in situations like that almost look like a way to get revenge, to attack each other, to get the leg up, to make a statement where I like the way you think. I really do. And it kind of hit some of my core aspect there, where it's. It's finding resolution, right? It's finding a way to still take care of the kids, to make sure everyone wins, no one loses. You know, not every separation divorce has to be this nasty bloodbath. So to say it can be resolved in a amicable manner with. With some heart. Right. Is kind of a good way to put it. So that makes me wonder, why do you do this? What. What is that piece of fulfillment you get out of doing this?
[00:20:23] Speaker C: Well, I think I chose family law mostly because you get to work with people in a very challenging time of their life. You know, a lot of people cry in my office. There's a lot of emotions, and you get to help them through that, you know, and. And see, you know, over the years, I've seen a lot of kids, you know, grow up. You know, clients have had to come back multiple times, and, you know, clients will bring their children into the office and. And I'm just like, wow. It's just. It's sometimes shocking to see how much they've grown since I first started representing Them, however, years ago it was. And it's certainly a more challenging asp. More challenging area of the law than many other areas of the law, because it touches on so many other areas of the law. There's bankruptcy considerations, there's. There's real estate considerations, there's ERISA stuff that comes into play. If you're dividing 401ks or state pension systems, or really any kind of pension system, military pensions, you got to be involved with, you know, federal law. So it crosses a large swath of different areas of law. And so you, again, you really got to know what you're doing when you. When you get into this. A lot of times we get a lot of agreements that other attorneys have drafted, and I read them, and I instantly know that this person has never done family law before because they miss vast swaths of information that needed to be included to protect not only their own client, but really the other party as well. And it takes a lot more money to fix something after it's already been done than to do it right the first time. And see, that's the key. Do it right the first time, you're going to save yourself a ton of money. In the long run, there won't be as much confusion as to when parenting time is, and we really try and lock all of that stuff down.
If you just say, father gets visitation Monday and Tuesday. Well, what times on Monday and Tuesday? And so it causes a lot of consternation and a lot of grief for the children who don't really know, you know, when I'm supposed to be with dad, when I'm supposed to be with Mom.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: You know, I.
That right there, I think, is really key. There's some vital stuff that I think even I wasn't really thinking about. And you're also highlighting just how little knowledge I have in this field. And it's. It's great. You know, I grew up in. My parents separated, and there were some times where it was nasty or was chaotic, but all in all, they did have the vision of making sure we were taken care of and we came first. You know, they still were. How would you say, cordial and able to still interact with each other, but there was definitely times where it could have gone crazy really fast. And I'm loving this information you're providing because it's given me a whole different look on the way I would ask questions to legal representation, to an attorney to find who it is that I would want to represent me and my family, family through a very tough time like this. So I'm excited to keep this conversation going.
So if you guys are enjoying this conversation, I recommend go refill your coffee, grab a pen and pad because we're gonna have a whole nother segment with Mr. Thomas here, and this is gonna get wild. We'll be right back on the Bottom Line.
[00:23:42] Speaker A: The bottom line is where we cut through the chaos to simplify success, uncovering the strategies, mindset, and resilience it takes to win. Real stories, expert insights, and practical tools. Because the only way to the top is by putting in the work.
[00:23:58] Speaker B: This is the bottom line. Welcome back to the Bottom Line. Today I'm joined with Thomas Erb. This is an incredible conversation we're having so far, and I want to talk about something many people underestimate, the importance of experience in family law. When emotions run high and stakes are even higher, experience becomes more than just a credential. It becomes a shield. So, Thomas, it's great having you on the show. I'm enjoying this conversation and just like always, I want to get right to the bottom line of this topic and try to get as much value to the people out there that need to hear what you got to say. So why is it so critical to have experienced legal counsel during those family law disputes?
[00:24:42] Speaker C: Experience can really make the difference between how your parenting time ends up. The. The. The changes in the Ohio Revised Code are fast. They come often, and you really need to have somebody who's familiar with the changes in the law because the law, the law has changed drastically in the state of Ohio since 2019 in regards to child support. And so if you don't do this all day, every day, you're not going to know that you get a 10% deviation if you have more than 90 overnights a year, and then you get a second deviation if you have more than 147 overnights per year. I don't know where the Ohio legislature came up with 147 overnights and made that like the magic number. But. But that's what they did. And now they're overhauling, or they're working on overhauling the entire parenting section of the Ohio Revised code, which is 3109.04, and it's 437 pages.
And that's going to drastically change the way parenting is done in Ohio in the future when it passes. They've tried to pass it a couple in the past. It's kind of failed previously. It looks like this time it's going to get the green light. And as soon as it comes out I know I'm going to have people calling me, what does this new bill mean for me? And it'll be years before the appellate court, you know, takes it up and we figure out what exactly it means. But having a base knowledge of how things work, you know, in the family law court, it's just, it's invaluable to have somebody who knows what they're talking about and follows this stuff all the time. Like I was saying earlier, you don't want to get caught up in. I've practiced 50 years. Well, that's fantastic. But if you spent those 50 years doing real estate law and now you're trying to take domestic, they don't correlate. There's not really that crossover between the two.
So experience in family law or in any other area of law, when you're talking to an attorney, when you need that attorney for that area, you, it's just, it's just so key, you know.
[00:26:48] Speaker B: That, that, that's a good point. You know, I, I, I kind of was chewing on a thought there. I certainly don't want someone that's going to jump in and wing it, right. And just figure it out as they go or run into a situation where they're not sure and just move as if they know everything. Right. It, it's with so many things that can change and all the stuff that's up to interpretation that experience is absolutely critical to, number one, navigate the complexities, number two, keep the clients settled and comfortable and confident in what's to come. But with it being, you know, family matters, it's delicate. It's not, not something you really just want to toss up in the wind and just where it lands, it lands. You want somebody that can give you a target, show you the path and actually execute. Right? So here's, you know, we've touched base on this, this next one a little bit, but I want to dig into it a little bit more. How does that courtroom experience give clients an edge in high stakes situations?
[00:27:51] Speaker C: Well, if you're a family law attorney, you're in court all of the time. And so I do tell clients often because there are surprises that come up when you're at the courtroom. Sometimes you might be there not expecting a hearing and the magistrate says, hey, I want to hear evidence right now. So I say, well, yeah, I'm going to wing it. Well, am I actually winging it? I'm not. I know the case, I know the facts, I know what the magistrate is looking for. And so I'm able to present and Tailor that evidence for the particular magistrate that we're in front of. But it requires a lot of thinking on your feet. And so the high volume of hearings that I do, a lot of them seem to take the same shape. And I work with a cadre of attorneys who I see all of the time. And I know what they're going to say before they even open their mouth, because it's the same information. I was there last week, and I was. I was on a spousal support case where my client was trying to receive spousal support. And then an hour later I walked back in and my client was going to be the payor and of course, didn't want to pay. So I had to make two separate arguments for two separate clients within the span of two hours and advocate to the court as to why the first client needed the money and why the second client shouldn't have to pay any money. And so you really need to know what you're doing and have a plan prior to walking in and sort of you map that out for your client. You know, usually there's so many hypotheticals that you could run from and think about. You really have to narrow it down to maybe three forums. I find three seems to be something that they can focus on. And I usually say, hey, look, here's. Here's option one that might happen. Here's option two, here's option three. I think those are the most likely options based on this particular set of facts and circumstances. I think it's going to be one. I think it's going to be one. I have pretty high confidence in what option one is, and that makes them feel a whole lot better than. By the way, when option one happens, you've got a client for life because they know that, you know, what you were talking about. You predicted the outcome that was going to happen, happen, and they feel a whole lot better about it, and they're going to tell all of their friends about you.
[00:30:05] Speaker B: I think that's a great way for the experience to really kind of highlight itself when you're able to give some good vision and a good idea of where things are going to go and. And what to expect. You know, I think that that adds significant value to a client and into the situation. I mean, that can definitely lower tension and. And lower hostility. And I think in situations like this that are so delicate and so intimate. Right. This is a very personal thing.
I think that type of ability to be able to give them some vision and settle it down a little bit can definitely change how this whole process is received. It can either be a very traumatic experience, or it can be something that maybe can change perspective in somebody and also gain a little bit of hope for what the future brings. So what do you wish more people understood about the role of legal strategy in protecting families?
[00:31:00] Speaker C: Well, I think leaderal strategy is important. In your first meeting with your client, you really need to be able to lay out sort of how the case is going to run, how long it's going to take, what you're going to do in between those time periods, what kind of access they're going to have to you, what kind of conversations you're going to be having to have. I usually, I usually give sort of a highlight reel of, here's the stuff we're going to need to talk about as we move through the case. And then I try and break it down piece by piece as it comes up because it's frankly overwhelming. I can sit here and talk about spousal support for two hours. Who's going to listen to me talk about spousal support for two hours? Absolutely nobody. So I try and give enough information that they can make an informed decision, because that's really my role. I'm a Sherpa, okay? I'm a guide. I don't make any decisions. I, I recommend things based on my past experiences in, in doing this type of law. But I don't, you know, it's. People think attorneys get to make decisions. We don't. We make absolutely no decisions. We. We present the pluses, the minuses. There's always pluses and minuses. There's never a slam dunk. If I had a dollar for every time somebody said, this is going to be easy, I'd be very rich.
It. It's never as easy as somebody thinks it's going to be, or, oh, my spouse is absolutely going to sign this agreement as soon as you draft it up. And I'm just like, okay, I'm going to have you remember this conversation in about five months when we're still doing this and they haven't signed it. Now, I always hope they're going to sign it, but I think the strategy needs to be, you need to focus your clients on those individual decision points, right?
Not overwhelming them with, okay, well, you have to make all of these night. The 19 decisions that you have to make in a divorce case all at once. You really got to focus them in and go over, here's the strategy. If we do this, here's the strategy. If we do that.
This is what I think you ought to do. What do you want to do?
[00:33:00] Speaker B: That's, that's very interesting, honestly. And it kind of makes me wonder how many situations have you been in where it started off pretty nasty, but because of your ability, it turned out to be diffused and, and be settled in an amicable way.
[00:33:20] Speaker C: It really takes two attorneys, you know, to be able to do that. Because while I can cool down the temperature, if the other side keeps ramping it up, I have to respond in, in, in kind.
That's why I like to start things off on a low burner. Unless the client specifically tells me to take it to a hundred.
I like to start things out low because if we can keep it low, it's going to be beneficial for everybody. Now something comes up in the middle of the case sometimes, sometimes things blow up, then they'll calm back down. It just, it really.
Family law cases are so factually dependent that one fact that you didn't know prior can really change how your advice to your client is delivered. You know, working a case recently where one fact changed the entire trajectory of the case from, from going, you know, this way, it went, it went the other way. It went worse for my client because I didn't know one of the facts. And then when I found out, I was like, we just spent nine months preparing this case based on a set of facts and circumstances that I knew nine months ago, I didn't know this. We could have prepared a whole different trajectory and minimized that fact, which really, it wasn't even that bad of a fact. Okay, it wasn't, but because that's kind.
[00:34:39] Speaker B: Of interesting when you bring that up, actually, I find that really, I can relate to that, especially in the world of consulting. Right. I can use my experience to kind of test this one a little bit. You can only do the best you can with the facts that you have and the facts that are shared with you. Right. If your client doesn't give you all the truth or hides things or forgets something, it can be a game changer later down the road. It can cause a lot of problems potentially. So I, I find that to be very relatable. But I think it also highlights trust in your legal counsel. Be honest, be open. They're already in the mix of it with you. They are there to help you, not hinder you. As long as they're a good one.
[00:35:21] Speaker C: As long as they're a good one, you can you trust, then what are you doing?
[00:35:27] Speaker B: Right. So I've got to ask, where can our audience find you? Because this conversation has been very enlightening and I think our audience would love to get in contact with you. Where can they find you?
[00:35:37] Speaker C: We're in Medina, Ohio. WW.Herb Legal.com is our website. I'm also on LinkedIn. You know, underneath my name we've got a YouTube page. There's lots of ways to find us. If you type in Herb Legal, you're going to find us. And we service about, like I said, three or four, five northeast Ohio counties pretty regularly. We will go anywhere if the story is interesting. I love. I love an interesting story. I love something I haven't dealt with on a regular basis before because it really gives me an opportunity to stretch my legal imagination rather than the same, you know, thing every single time.
[00:36:15] Speaker B: That's fantastic. I've got to stay in touch with you. You're an incredible person and you've got a fountain of knowledge. So don't go anywhere. This conversation has been tremendous. In our next segment, I'm going to dive into some of my own beliefs, my own thoughts, my own perspectives on this topic. We'll be right back on the bottom Line.
[00:36:36] Speaker A: The bottom line is where we cut through the chaos to simplify success, uncovering the strategies, mindset and resilience it takes to win. Real stories, expert insights and practical tools. Because the only way to the top is by putting in the work.
[00:36:52] Speaker B: This is the bottom line. We are back on the bottom line and we're still working on discovering all the complexities of our personal brand. And what an incredible conversation we've had today with Leslie Everett. If there is one message to take away from today, I would have to summarize it as your brand is not just what you say, it's what people remember.
There's a lot more to your personal brand than just what you have on social media. There's so much that ties into what people see you as. That's where your personal brand is. Your personal brand is you. It's the person you are, the life you live, the things you do, the way you interact, all of that really plays into how people remember you. And I want to cover some of the major points. To me, my own experience, my own perspectives, my own beliefs that I utilize when mentoring people. When I utilize, I use this, this information when, when consulting for businesses. But I want to start with something that's rather critical.
Your branding is going to happen with or without your intention. So you've got to make sure that you reflect on your values.
It's very critical and very important to understand that Building your personal brand is intentional. It's not an automatic, it's not an easy thing. It's something that you have to be cognizant of. It has to become who you are. Who you are is what you want people to see. If you want the business world to see you as calm, collected, methodical, strategic, you've got to represent that. You've got to be that. It has to be that way in communication, has to be that way with pretty much everything. And like we addressed earlier in this show with Leslie, even over email, you know, there's a lot of risk with how people interpret things, but you just got to be intentional with how you're communicating. Another powerful point is building your personal brand.
You know, personal brand isn't vanity, right? It's clarity. It helps others understand who you are and, and what you bring to the table. So speaking from my experience, I've worked with quite a few different businesses and people that have quite a bit of notary, they've got a little bit of this, this view, this vision. When you say their name, people automatically have these thoughts on who they are, what they do, what they're like, and it's not tied. It doesn't tie directly to who they really are. There's a lot of people where I had assumptions about who they are, what they do, what they're like, before I actually had the chance to sit down with them behind closed doors. A couple great examples is one of my previous business partners. To the outside world, he can seem very intense, very scary, very, very cut your head off if you make a mistake. But in reality, he's very intense, but it's because he cares so deeply. His personal brand is that of someone who is cutthroat and very angry, intense and scary to work with. But reality, he just cares so deeply about his team, the people that work with him, their success, and he takes it personally.
It's definitely something that he's created over time with the way he's interacted, the way he's talked to people. But his brand doesn't represent who he really is. And that's something to be cognizant of. That's going to happen whether or not you like it. So what you show to the outside world is what people are going to see. Now, don't let this make you a hypocrite. Don't let this make you live in this feeling of imposter syndrome, because that, that's a problem. Your brand should be in alignment with who you are. If who you are is not very good. Your brain's not going to be very good, right? To truly establish, I like to think of it like this.
Developing your personal brand is just like developing a child developing a team. You have to address problems promptly yet with compassion, empathy and understanding. And everything has to have a strategic approach. But don't let your brand or who you present yourself to be conflict with who you really are, because that will show at some point and like Leslie brought up before, it can seriously impact your credibility and honestly, your integrity. It's very important that with what you do, it aligns with what you say and vice versa. So consistency is key across, you know, across meetings, online presence, communication and follow through that consistency is key.
And on the, you know, cross meetings, right, if we're looking at meetings, you want to show up the same way all the time. You want the people you work with, the people you're meeting with, to already know what to expect from you. If it's the first meeting, they've got the great opportunity of setting the standard, leveling the playing field.
You get to choose how they receive you. Now, it might not be exactly how you want them to because everyone's perspective is different, but the first meeting, you get to set the tone. Every meeting after that, if you do this correctly and you stay consistent, you now have people that understand what it is you like, don't like what you're looking for. So it can speed things up. It can make navigating the complexities of offense and intention very, very easy. A lot of the people I meet with consistently, they know that I value my time and their time. So if we set a time, a meeting to be very intentional with business and to get through certain topics, criteria, different things, we need to move, we need to stay on topic, we need to get things done. If we want to schedule a time to chat and to build relationship and goof off and have that level of camaraderie, no problem, I'm all for that. But there has to be an appropriate time set for it. It's being intentional with who you are, what you do, so people can interpret and predict what you're going to do. It gives a time efficiency and effectiveness and then it also prevents miscommunication.
This applies with your online presence. Don't let your online presence be just the glorious, glamorous you. There's a lot of imposter syndrome out there, and a lot of this comes from we want people to believe we're better than we are. We want people to believe we live at a higher standard. Than we are, that, that, that creates a conflict, makes you a hypocrite. And then a lot of the time when someone sees the reality, they get close enough to you to build that relationship. They see there's, there's conflict. You're not really the person you present to be, especially online.
That can be a serious, serious factor. And tanking your personal brand and the way that people perceive you. That leads into the communication aspect, which I've touched base on several times and so did Leslie in the other segments, but I want to address it again. It's so critical. Being able to communicate effectively and efficiently makes all the difference.
If you come to a situation and you communicate with intensity, offense, anger, frustration, you're going to get a different, a different perspective from the people you're communicating with. Different reaction, right. I think of it as the objective is to respond rather than react. It's being cognizant of the emotions you feel. So your communication is clean, controlled, and pursues the objective in mind.
In business, all communication I have has some sort of objective, whether it be to close a deal with a client to solve a problem, to get a point across the way you communicate that sets the tone for who you are in your personal brand. Lastly, on this consistency point is that follow through. I cannot tell you a faster way to tank your credibility than failure to follow through. It's the easiest way for people to count you out, to forget about you, to move on and to put you in a category of people they don't want to associate with. You've got to follow through.
Something my mentor taught me a long time ago.
I had a problem with, with saying, I'll do this, I'll take care of this. I'll handle that. I'll do xyz. I'll send you this information because I really wanted to help. I was genuine, but I would agree so much that I'd forget and I wouldn't follow through. And it killed my integrity. At the time I was working into trying to become a director of operations. It was a problem. It's hard for people to follow a leader that cannot follow through.
You become inconsistent. You become.
It's hard to trust in what you say because what you do does not line up. That follow through is key. So what my mentor had me do a long time ago, carry on a notebook. If I say I'm going to do something, I write it down so that I cannot forget because follow through is that vital. It sets the tone for who you are. People will know you as the person who does what they say or the person who doesn't. I don't want to work with people that say all these beautiful things but can't deliver. That's why philosophy of mine is undersell over deliver. But your brand is built in these small moments. How you show up, how you follow through, and how you make people feel.
And that's the reality. It's not always these big grand gestures that set the tone for your personal brand. Most of it is those small moments, what you handle in the real world, right? It's responding, overreacting. If you react to something with serious offense, people are going to be a little more on edge about talking to you.
That affects your brand. That affects who you are, the way people see you. To be slow to anger, to respond to the emotion and to allow the opportunity to listen first, understand second, and then respond.
This also marks a level of maturity. Children oftentimes they speak before they think and then after they speak and think about it, then they understand. But it's too late.
Adults, not all adults, mind you, adults.
The goal is to listen first, understand, and then speak. The smartest person in the room isn't usually the person that speaks first or the loudest. But branding isn't about being someone you're not. It's about amplifying your best, most authentic self. So please keep that in mind. Don't overlook that. But your talent alone isn't always enough. People buy into people with confidence, clarity, consistency. Your brand tells others how to treat you, trust you, and value you. So here's the challenge. Take one step this week to align your image with your impact. That could be refining your online presence, changing how you show up in meetings, or even asking someone you trust how they perceive you. Then adjust accordingly. But your success is not just about your skills. It's about how those skills are seen. And that's the bottom line.
Thank you for joining us today.
This conversation was really powerful. And if you enjoyed this, go back, watch it again, keep it archived, take some notes, and share it with others that you know need to adjust their personal brand. Remember, success isn't given, it's earned. Just like your personal brand. We'll see you next time on the Bottom Line.
[00:48:52] Speaker C: This has been a NOW Media Network's feature presentation. All rights reserved.
