Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Success isn't given, it's earned. And earning it means becoming the person who deserves it. The bottom line is where we cut through the chaos to simplify success, uncovering the strategies, mindset and resilience it takes to win real stories, expert insights and practical tools. Because the only way to the top is by putting in the wall. This is the bottom line.
Welcome to the Bottom Line. I your host, Ryan Herpin. On this show, we cut through the noise to get to the heart of the issues that matter most. Today we're diving into a challenge that can feel pretty overwhelming. What happens when someone faces criminal charges and their immigration status is on the line? It's a moment filled with fear, uncertainty and a sense that everything is out of control.
Joining me is the wonderful, wonderful Ms. Elizabeth. I'm so excited for this conversation. She is a criminal, immigration and family law attorney based in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. With nearly two decades of experience, she's the only lawyer in Wyoming specializing in the intersection of criminal and immigration law. Elizabeth has really argued before the Wyoming Supreme Court and has dedicated her career to providing compensate compassionate law services to underrepresented communities. Elizabeth, welcome to the show. It's such a pleasure having you.
[00:01:28] Speaker B: Thank you so much. Ryan, Good morning.
[00:01:31] Speaker A: So I this show is called the Bottom Line for a good reason. I like to get right to the so really want to start with this. When someone realizes criminal charge could threaten their right to stay in this country, how do we first help them feel safe?
[00:01:47] Speaker B: Very first thing I always recommend people to do is to have that phone number memorized on who you're calling when you're detained. Right. Because the first thing that's going to happen is law enforcement or ice, they're going to take your cell phone. And I don't know like most people, right, my mother's number one and family's number two. But I don't know what those phone numbers are so I need to memorize what those numbers are. Local numbers for where you may be detained are key. And being that person that's going to accept that call, that collect call, accept that 1-800-number, that number that you might not recognize right off the bat. So and answering that call is going to be the first thing and telling that person who's been detained number one, please stop talking with law enforcement. Please stop talking with ICE officials. They're not your friends. Make that phone call to your trusted person and have that trusted person know the plan to get in touch with your legal counsel and to start effectuating the plan that you've put in place, hopefully before you've been detained.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: That is some really, really good advice. You know, many immigrants who are arrested fear deportation and it often feels like everything is spinning out of control.
And I really wanted to focus this segment on exploring what immediate steps can be taken and how to simplify the legal process and how families can stay hopeful during the crisis.
And this stuff is really important because nowadays it is questionable. There's a lot going on surrounding immigration, whether it be legal, illegal, and just what happens if an accident happens, mistake happens. So let's defend themselves. There's a lot of uncertainty around this topic. Right. So what should someone do right after being arrested to protect both their criminal and immigration?
[00:03:27] Speaker B: Right. Please stop talking to law enforcement. And nice. That's the number one thing. You know, we sort of, we're polite human beings for the most part. So we start to tell our story. We start to try to be friendly with law enforcement officials and try to, you know, argue our way out of the situation as best we can. But really talking is not going to be helpful until you've talked with legal counsel about what you should be talking about.
Everybody should remember that much like a criminal case where bond is usually available, that's the same case with ICE as well. So we're going to work on bonds, paying those bonds, getting you back to your family and back home. And then we're going to slow down your timeline and do things without that panic. Right. If I can get you out of jail first, that's our first step.
Once you're out of jail, we can visit in the conference room, have a cup of coffee, visit family and have those steps much more delineated and much more clear. But that first initial bond, we're going to do that immediately.
And so having that person you're going to call, knowing how they're going to access your money, knowing how they're going to call your attorney, those are the first steps.
But number one, maintaining your right to silence, it's only as good as your rights are, only as good as when you levy them and use them and assert them. So that's the first step.
Don't make friends where they're not your friends and call that family trusted member, that friend to actually get you to your legal counsel and to get your bond paid and get you home. Those are the first steps.
[00:04:56] Speaker A: You know, it's it such an important thing you brought up there. And I actually learned that through a completely different means, going through firearms training and getting a concealed license to carry. Right. The one thing that we're taught in that process is if an event happens, this is the information you provide on the phone when you're calling for law and do not talk to anybody.
And they actually gave me a card for an attorney's number specifically for these types of events. So now I have anything I need. If anything ever happens, I know, call the police, say only these things, call this number, and don't talk to anybody. So it's so important to protect those rights and to not back yourself into a corner, so to say. So how do we simplify the complicated mix of criminal law and immigration law for someone who's panicking?
[00:05:50] Speaker B: I tell people my favorite moment, not because it's enjoyable for me, and we sort of lose a little bit of language in communicating this, but my favorite moment is when you show up to that jail, when you make that jail call and the person is panicking. And as you start to explain what the known outcomes and probabilities are, you can see it in their face, they start to relax. Even if the known outcome is, is maybe an upheaval of their life, or maybe I'm explaining a prison sentence or deportation and how that's really going to look for that human being. But once they get to that realization of the known and they can have that expectation of these are the processes, this is what we're going to see over the next week or the next six months, whatever the timeline is.
That moment of human ability to know what's in front of you, that breath that people take once they have that realization, is my favorite part of my job. You come into a situation where someone is panicking and you need to listen to them, they have a lot to download to you first. And once you get to that point where they're willing to accept some information, even if it's not the most happy information, once they have the known, then they can make plans. And my role, I always tell my clients, is not to tell you what you want to hear.
My role is to tell you what is real so that you and your family can make real choices with accurate information to the best of your ability.
And that's my. My favorite moment. But getting in, talking with people. And again, that's why they need to have that first phone call memorized on who they're reaching out to, so that person can reach out to their legal counsel. And we can start that information tree, if you will.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: You touched base on something that I find extremely important, and I cannot overlook it. You talked about that being your favorite part is when you're able to help settle that panicking feeling, create that clarity. Because there's one thing that we all know for sure. People fear the unknown.
So when you've got someone that is able to explain the process, give you clarity, give you vision, and give you kind of a roadmap of what it's going to look like, the panic can subside. You can start taking a deep breath and believing it's going to be okay. So that actually leads me to a very important question. And this is a little bit deeper, but this is something that's really, really valuable and think would also help people understand why someone like you could be helpful in it. Why do you do this? What part of doing this gives you that fulfillment?
[00:08:15] Speaker B: I think that's a question I'm still answering.
I think when you focus on your why why you're doing something, the how tends to fall into place. But you really need to be centered on what's the achievement today? What's the why? The why for me, today I have some bond hearings with people that are in immigration custody, and we're prepared to make the best argument possible to get the immigration judge to give them a bond so that that can be paid and they can get home.
That's our why. Today.
We're very clear on what our motivation is. I like to tell my interns, law students, attorneys that work here, we all know that my paralegals run my office and tell me where I'm supposed to be and keep things on track.
That's not something I'm very good at doing, but I'm very good at hiring the right people to do it.
Focusing on your why. We show up, we do good work. We do honest work. We tell our clients what it is and what they're looking at, and we don't sugarcoat it so they can make good decisions. We do good work for good people, and we need to rest assured that that's our why. As long as we show up motivated to do that, the how will land in place for us every day. And it's, you know, it's been that way for 20 years. So here's another day, and I'll tell you how tomorrow goes.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: That was very, very well said. And I also like that you highlighted your team, appreciated them all at the same time. And I find that to be so vitally important, because truth is, we can't do any of this on our own. It requires, you know, there's a. There's a term, you know, a lot of people use it for raising kids, but it takes A village.
Well, I think it takes a village for almost anything, and that includes fulfilling that purpose.
And that's the truth.
So what's one clear step someone can take in that moment to start protecting their future when something happens and in that position, it's really scary.
What can they do to kind of, what's the smartest step they could take?
[00:10:07] Speaker B: Take a breath.
Know that you don't need to be talking with law enforcement, even if they're very friendly to you, which is usually, it's not necessarily a tactic. Law enforcement are human beings, too, and they have their jobs, but they can gain the most information from somebody, usually by being polite and being friendly, recognizing and saying, I want to be compliant. I want to be polite. But my attorney, Elizabeth, says I should stop talking to you right now.
I'm happy to be the fall guy around here. All the law enforcement knows me, so that's an easy answer for people to deliver.
Have that conversation with your trusted friend. Have that plan. This is who I'm calling. If I wake up today and things don't go according to what I set out to do, no one really wakes up and says, you know, today I'd like to get arrested and have my world upended. That's not generally, it's just not how we plan it. But if you have a conversation with a family member that I got you, when you call me, I'm going to answer that phone. And when I call you, you're going to answer that phone. And we have a plan.
But first off, take a breath. Please stop talking to law enforcement and make that trusted phone call.
[00:11:15] Speaker A: That was also very, very well said. And it's pretty practical. I like that you're very to the point, but you also give the meat behind because there is a lot of benefit.
So we will be right back. Coming up next, we'll look at how Elizabeth built a law practice that truly cares where clients feel heard and supported, not just represented. So go get your coffee, stretch out, grab some popcorn, whatever it is you got to do, but grab a notepad and pen. We'll be right back on the Bottom Line.
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So I am ready to jump right back into the conversation with Elizabeth. This is powerful so far, to say the least. In our first segment, we talked about navigating criminal charges when immigration status is at risk. Now we're shifting to a different but equally important topic, what it looks like to build a law practice that truly cares. Cares. Many people see lawyers as cold and transactional, but Elizabeth has taken a different approach, one rooted in empathy, compassion, and genuine care for her clients.
So really want to dive into this with. Many people feel that lawyers see their cases just as business.
So this segment is really going to dive into how legal practice can be both strong and deep, giving clients hope and trust in tough times. So, Elizabeth, thank you for being on the show. I'm excited to dive into this morning again.
[00:13:29] Speaker B: Ryan, it's good to still be here with you.
[00:13:31] Speaker A: So simply put, how, how do you decide to build a practice that both strong and warm? Because I'll be honest with you, some time ago I thought of lawyers a very similar way as golden transactional. But, you know, getting to talk to you, getting to know you and the few others that I have, it seems that I've been very wrong and many others have. So what do you do to build that warm sprung front?
[00:13:56] Speaker B: I think the very first thing, we have a system where you show up and ring our doorbell. And when you're greeted in our office, we prefer an appointment. We do operate by appointment only and that's not because we're not interested in people just stopping by and saying hello. But it's really so that I can be prepared for what our conversation is going to be and I can be where you need me to be. Right. If I'm in court and running around, then you're not going to feel like I am invested in you or that my time has been carved out for you. But the first thing, when you ring that doorbell at our space, any one of our team members here is going to show up and first invite you in and then ask if you need water or if you need coffee. And that first interaction is important.
The team is set up to answer that doorbell and immediately ask you how can we care for you and to have you sit down and visit with us. When it comes to building something warm, I think right. Just being true to ourselves, I want to show up in a place where I feel valued and I feel inspired and my team does too.
Most of my paralegals have been through the system, whether it's been their own criminal system, and often that's how I've met them, or through their own immigration system, and that's how I've met them. And the reason why that those team members are so important to me is because when that phone call rings and that phone rings from the jail, when my paralegal has been that person that made that jail call to my office, they know how important it is to answer it. When I ask that team member to go file that bond paperwork or that motion, that my client needs to be out of jail or needs to have some sort of relief from the court, that paralegal who's been through that, who's had to make that same request, doesn't sit in their chair. They get up and they take it to the court immediately. And so our team is really focused on our clientele, and a lot of my team has been the clientele. So they know just how important it is to treat people with empathy, compassion and decency, no matter what they're showing up here to talk to us about. And we have some people that have been through some rough circumstances, some that they're not proud of, but to really be able to sit there and hold space with them and recognize that they're a human being and that they are entitled to that compassion and decency, no matter how they showed up at our door and ring that doorbell and is our first step.
[00:16:08] Speaker A: I really, really like that. You know, it's one thing to have that strong and warm atmosphere and exposure to the business, but I'm all about the subtle things. I'm all about those small acts of kindness that can really change the dynamic with a client and help them feel heard. So what are some of those small things you do right from day one where they don't only feel this awesome environment, but they feel, feel that real compassion and empathy? Right.
[00:16:36] Speaker B: When you show up at our office, you'll be asked if you need anything to drink. We also always have a lot of food and snacks on hand. I do work for a lot of transient folks who are food insecure. And so the first is going to be, can I help you with those first basic needs as you're, as you're coming to this space? And the second thing I tell a lot of my law students and interns as well as their learning, show up to that space with that client and shut up. Just let them talk for a minute.
Right? Don't need to take notes. You don't need to do anything, just listen to them. How's their day? What's going on? What's their favorite color? What's their dream job? Things that may have nothing to do with the case, but get to know that human being in front of you. Once you've front loaded that effort with that human being, then your rest of your conversations and your representation will change dynamically for the better for you. It'll be more fulfilling as the lawyer in that case. And you'll get to the heart of what's going on for your client. It's not just about, can I get something dismissed on a constitutional issue. It's what are my clients goals. And I can only know what their goals are if I know what is your favorite color?
Tell me, it's important information, but show up. Do you need a cup of coffee? Are you hungry? And then be quiet and let them tell you what they need to tell you.
[00:17:54] Speaker A: There's so much power to what you just said. The power in being quiet and just listen.
I find that to be so, so true in so many situations where a lot of people just have this urge to keep talking, keep talking, keep talking where the solutions are found. When you just sit there and listen, you know, there's something I've always thought about to this day. It really makes a lot of sense to me. I believe the difference between someone who's mature and someone who's not, someone who's not very mature, they speak first, listen second, and then understand.
Someone who's mature, developed, they listen first, understand and speak.
So with this type of dynamic, I'm curious, how do you train your team to keep that level of empathy under those heavy workloads when things get really chaotic?
[00:18:48] Speaker B: That's a good question. But we were just at the jail and I have an intern who's just 16 right now. And I often will have a young person on the team. They bring a lot of new technology, new ideas to me. I'm always learning something from them. But really going to the jail and sitting in that visitor's room and sitting with a person and they're not paperwork, they're not just the sum of whatever their charges are or what their criminal or immigration history is, and really holding space, it seems a little cliche or maybe a little cheesy, but going and sitting with your client in that visitor's room and they're going to cry and let them do it and sit there with them and don't rush it.
I don't know if that's training, empathy, or just having the 16 year old sit with me in that room. Hopefully they can learn to see that this is just a human experience and connection. And we are there to give people the advice they need to make the best decisions they can for themselves and their family.
We're not there to sugarcoat things. We're not there to make false promises. We are literally there to lead them through what might be one of their darkest hours.
And just to sit and hold space is. Is what we are asked.
[00:20:05] Speaker A: You really just highlighted humanity.
You're allowing people to be treated as.
The focus is genuine care and recognizing your person just like anyone else.
We all feel the hardship, the struggle, and sometimes things get crazy and scary. But it sounds like something that makes you quite unique, at least from my experience with different attorneys is you really do focus on the humanities.
It doesn't matter what you're dealing with, what you're going through, you're a person before anything.
I find that to be kind of a breath of fresh air. So I am curious. You know, this is kind of an important question in my mind. Well, what's some feedback from a client that's really touched your heart and kind of keeps that fire burning hot?
[00:20:53] Speaker B: I can be inspired with thank yous. Truly, one of the hardest conversations I've ever had was with someone who got a life sentence. You know, we get that jury verdict back and I gotta go explain what that looks like to them at the jail and what that looks like for their future.
And to just that thank you. That thank you for just telling me what this situation is that motivates us and keeps us moving along.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: So now I've got to ask, where can our audience find you?
For all those that are watching and listening, how can they connect you? How can they reach you? Right.
[00:21:32] Speaker B: The email is great. We have a contact page on our website. You're always welcome to give us a call. We have a human being who answers our phone. Her name is Melissa. She works really hard.
Occasionally she goes to lunch and she's done with her day. So leave a voicemail. We log every single phone call that comes in and we'll get back to you. We are triaging our battles. When someone's in ICE custody or detention, we're going to deal with that first. But we will get to those calls as soon as possible. But please be kind to me, Lisa, if you reach out, she's working hard and she'll take your calls and get them to me in the order that we need to address them.
[00:22:09] Speaker A: I really appreciate your time today. And I've got to ask, if there's one thing you could say to the audience or if they run into this event, what would it be?
[00:22:20] Speaker B: Take a breath and be quiet.
[00:22:23] Speaker A: I like that you reinforce this.
[00:22:27] Speaker B: Please be quiet.
[00:22:28] Speaker A: So important. So, so important. So, Elizabeth, thank you for joining us today on the show and sharing not only your expertise, but also your heart for the people you serve. We've learned that when facing criminal charges and immigration challenges, there are clear steps people can take to protect their futures. And that compassion with ecosystem isn't just awesome. It's essential for our viewers. In every challenge, whether legal, personal, or professional, the bottom line is that people matter most. We're all people. Before anything, humanity has to be there.
So we've got a couple more segments coming in. Don't go anywhere.
Get prepared, and we'll see you right back on the Bottom Line.
Welcome back to the Bottom Line. We've talked about legal process and the heart behind compassionate law. But I want to take a step further.
I want to talk about something we don't often associate with the justices.
Dignity.
What does it mean to give somebody dignity when the world is trying to label dignity, find them, or deport them. In this solo segment, I want to challenge how we view people going through the legal system and what it means to treat them not as case numbers, but as humans.
So to kind of start this off, I want to. I want to give a little bit of a personal story.
Working in different businesses, leading companies, and being somebody to make change and develop processes. And I've learned something very rare.
Sometimes the people you least expect make the biggest differences, the most efficient, effective.
Sometimes the people that have labels slapped on them. Sometimes people that have had a bad past can become the most compassionate, honest, loyal people you ever met.
When I was leading a company, I. I was struggling to find good.
And I didn't really know where to look or how to begin. And then I had an opportunity.
Someone with a very real criminal background interviewed.
And to be honest, it was a very awesome breath of fresh air. This person was compassionate.
They were open.
They talked to me about their past. They told me about what happened with them and the bad decisions they made, how they've grown, who they've turned into. And they were just hungry for an opportunity to prove that they're different.
I gave that opportunity, and that individual turned into one of the most efficient and effective people on my team.
I wanted to recognize them every step of the way because they stood out in ways that really, really mattered. And they were not defined by Their background, they were defined by the person they were in the moment, by the person that said, I'm going to change, I'm going to do something different. I'm going to take it seriously.
So the difference between punishment and dignity, justice.
Want to look at this? Very, very open minded. You know, punishment a lot of the time is deserved. You know, there's definitely times in history where someone's given a sentence or punishment that they didn't deserve. But even when people make mistakes, do something wrong, even heinous crimes, there's still people.
Whether you like them or not, whether you want to treat them as a human or not, everyone deserves it.
That's hard to say even for me sometimes because there's things out there where great examples. If someone ever did anything crazy to my kids, it'd be hard for me to want them.
I wouldn't really care. So I'm saying this from a position of I'm not going through anything like that. I have been put in that position. But I am a firm believer that people deserve dig.
And a lot of the time just because someone makes a mistake, we are very quick to judge and to believe that they are less than now.
Through my experiences, like I've said before, I've learned that that's not the case. There's a lot of amazing people out there that made mistakes. I have made my fair share of mistakes as well. I didn't let those mistakes define me.
All of our viewers, you've all made mistakes as well. Do you let those mistakes define you or do you try to become better and move forward? Would you want people to identify you and define you by the mistakes you've made in the past?
Probably not.
So that's a pretty good identifier that maybe we should try to treat others the way we want to be treated. Yeah, we hear that in kindergarten, we hear that in elementary school. We hear it from our parents, but it rings true.
Treat others where you want to be treated and don't judge a book by its cover. I think you might be pleasantly surprised by the contents because some of the prettiest books have the worst.
So how treating someone with dignity change their outcome in their life.
You know, this is a dear to my heart type because even with my past mistakes I've made, things I've done, if it wasn't for certain people in my life treating me and giving me a chance to change and grow and to learn, probably wouldn't be where I am today. Great example. I have a mentor and early in my career he Took me on this as his mentor. I made plenty of mistakes, mistakes that cost the company a lot, lot of money, big mistakes.
He didn't give up on me.
He may have beat me over the head a time or two, but he always gave me dignity and respect.
He showed me the mistake, reinforced what could have happened, and then helped me figure out how to navigate, how to prevent it from happening again. But the entire time, he gave me the respect I deserved as a person, even though that some of those mistakes cost him money and put his business at risk. That is a leader.
That is somebody who genuinely sees the person.
So there's a lot of stories out there of people who rose because someone believed them during their lowest.
And. And I've seen that plenty, plenty of times. You know, I've given an example of people with a very colorful criminal past that I've hired that have done imperial, incredible things. I've given stories of myself as far as, you know, kind of where I've come from and what I'm doing now and how that was possible because of somebody.
But I also think of this as a parent.
When our kids make mistakes, do we just immediately cut them off? Do we put them up for adoption? Do we try to run away? Do we.
This punishment ensue immediately? No, not all the time.
Mistakes are an opportunity to learn.
So in the legal system, going away, getting convicted, getting in trouble, those are opportunities to learn.
It doesn't mean somebody stays the way they were when they went in or when they were given their. Their verdict, their sentence. People can change. There's one thing that really rings true is people change. That's all we do.
It's impossible to stay the same because every experience we have is going to alter us one way or another.
So there's plenty of stories out there, and if you look, you're gonna find them. Look at your own story. You're gonna find a time that you improved, got better, became more because someone didn't beat you over the head when you made a mistake. So when you're at your lowest moments, someone was there lift you up, or at least not kick you down further.
And why? Empathy doesn't weaken judgment, justice, it strengthens it. Because empathy is not just for those that are.
That have been victimized, these for those that that have also been the problem. Right.
Empathy strengthens injustices many, many ways. And this is just my belief. I'm no lawyer, I'm no attorney. I'm none of that, but my belief as a business consultant, entrepreneur, a leader, a father, a husband, I see as treating people with respect is always the right way.
But when someone makes a mistake, as I've said many, many times, show them that respect. But at the same time, empathy strengthens the justice system because it's not just for those who make the mistake that we feel.
It's the people that were a victim of the situation, of the event, the people that were hurt or wronged in the situation, that empathy and can also increase the likelihood that whoever made that mistake learns lesson.
There's so many sides of that coin, there's so many sides to those stories and you know, it's a case by case basis. But I do believe empathy strengthens the justice system, not weakens. I don't think every mistake is something that should put somebody away forever.
I just don't think that's realistic. I don't think that's okay because we're all imperfect, we all make mistakes. That is true. And there's no way you could change my mind. But a challenge to the leaders.
Are we more focused on being right or being human?
I know I've been a culprit of this. Well, there's been many times early on in my career before I truly had the wisdom of a leader. The wisdom of a leader is realizing that you're just a big servant, you serve the people that.
But a lot of leaders, a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of business owners, they're led by ego. And that pride means you want to be right.
You don't want to be human.
You don't want to show that you can be wrong, that you have weaknesses, that you can be vulnerable, that you can make mistakes. It's easy to cut that out of the mix. That can seriously damage the culture of a business and the inner workings of a team.
So if I branch this out to a really big picture, we've got to look at the justice system from a different perspective. Maybe some of us already see it, but the power of dignity in the justice system is immense.
Because someone learning from their mistakes and becoming a better person is directly impact impacted by how they're treated during process.
Someone who makes a mistake, they're treated with dignity. They're able to feel like a human.
They feel a chance, an opportunity for redemption.
They're not treated like a human. Treated with dignity, you can become more bitter or frustrated and less likely to learn from the situation, but to find more enemies rather than people that genuinely want to help you improve.
So from the big lens, dignity has to be there.
Now, I think a lot of attorneys from my past. When I've, when I've looked at, I've met a lot of attorneys, lawyers and things, I felt like there was a cold, calculated approach to a lot of things. It's just very black and white numbers and not as much humanity. But as I've gotten the time to really learn and know several attorneys and more recent years, I've seen that as very wrong. They're doing this for a reason. A lot of the time, it's because they genuinely care.
They found a way to show dignity. At people's lowest moments, there's a lot of power.
So think of how this applies not just to the justice system, but your life, your business.
When people make mistakes, they're very important.
Yes, they have to feel the pain of the mistake just as a toddler does when they jump off of a couch onto a hardwood floor. They've got to learn that pain so they don't make the mistake again. So in our justice system, the pain, the punishment has to be there.
But it doesn't mean we have to remove the dignity. Same with business. You want your team to learn, improve and grow.
They've got to feel some pain, they've got to feel some discomfort, but they've got to be given the respect, opportunity and safety to speak, to be seen and to move forward.
So with that, I'll say the bottom line is real, straightforward justice without dignity is, is just power.
When we lead with humanity, we build systems that truly heal and help people grow and shape.
So don't go anywhere. We've got one more segment here on this episode. Bottom Line.
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We've talked about the legal system and I've touched base on redemption.
So I really want to focus on how the legal system can be that place of so far we've talked about crisis, immigration, but I really want to end this episode on that powerful, powerful redemption.
I believe that the legal system at its best isn't just A place where guilt is punished, but where growth is possible. In the final solo segment here, I want to explore how we can create a pat. You know, create pathways of redemption inside systems that often feel hopeless. And I want to correlate this into business and life as much as possible possible.
Redemption.
Redemption is such a powerful topic. It is a very controversial word at times because there's a lot of things that would make us feel someone does not deserve redemption by redemption. Leadership principle, not just a spiritual or legal leadership is all about helping people improve, helping people.
A good leader sees a mistake, sees an accident, sees a mess up. It turns it into an opportunity. They turn it into a lesson.
Parents all the time. That's what we do all the time. My son has fake eggs, little toy eggs. He wanted a real egg, so I gave him a warning. Hey, you drop it, it's gonna break.
Squeeze too tightly, gonna break.
I gave him the egg, played with it, he dropped it, it broke.
It was a learning experience. Yes, there's a little mess to clean up, big deal.
But it was an opportunity to learn, opportunity to grow. Now he knows more about being careful with a fragile object. Great learning experience. I'd rather him learn now than if he's carrying a lamp and breaks that and eggs. Pretty immaterial. But I say this to really kind of highlight the redemption aspect of leadership. It's our responsibility as leaders to turn that problem into an opportunity for growth and development.
The more your team grows, the more successful the business can become.
Your responsibility is to not react to the problem, the mistake, rather respond to it and turn it into something good. You know, we say you gotta look for the silver lining in every cloud. Well, same thing with problems. Got to look for the opportunity for growth because it's there.
Might not always be very obvious or clear, but it is there and it's up to you to find it. So the role of second chances in society and really in business is extremely important.
Second chance.
Everyone is a culprit of mistakes. Everyone has problems, everyone messes up.
That's just reality. All of us, we're all in perfect in myself, right? And when we look at redemption, I. I always go back to the spiritual aspect of. I look at the Bible, you know, I don't know what everyone believes in. I respect everyone's beliefs, but I find my guidance from the Bible and, and what Jesus said specifically.
Now if we look at what Jesus returned for, when Jesus was here for, like I said, whatever you believe in, just hear me out, stick with me.
The point of Jesus being Here is redemption.
It was allowing us the opportunity to be unburdened by ours, to grow, to give it over to him so we can be redeemed and earn our place in heaven.
Pretty powerful.
But it highlights something very, very real.
Wasn't for just some of us. This was here for all of us. Because all of us are. All of us are imperfect. All of us make mistakes and miss it.
So the reality is, if you don't give an opportunity for a second chance, why would someone give you one?
We look at this from the lens of the Bible. You were given a second chance. Third, fourth, fifth, so on, so forth, infinite number.
Why wouldn't you give a second chance?
Why are you any better than anybody or not?
Plain and simple, second chances play a very important role in society and business. In business, if every time someone made a mistake, fired him, or cut them off from the team, you're never gonna grow, you're never gonna win. You're always training people.
We make mistakes. It's what we do.
So instead of being ready to put people to pasture because of mistake, prepare to grow them.
Give them a second chance. A third or fourth, a fifth, sometimes. But there is a line that you have to draw in the world of business. Great example. Here's my line. In business, when you're compromising the safety of yourself or others, that's one of the big.
I'll give you a second chance depending on the problem.
But sometimes the lesson needs to be, you lost your job because of your actions.
Sometimes the lesson is, this was really dangerous. This was a problem. This was a big mistake. I'm going to give you another chance, but you're going to be watching.
See, something that's really important is personal reflections, stories where someone surprised me with, you know, growth and failure after failure. I think of these things on a regular basis because it keeps in mind that I'm also imperfect. I make mistakes. But if we take a minute to reflect, we look at our own situations, our own lives, we can bring up story after story after story in situations where we have made mistakes and we grew from.
That's all we do. We change, we grow.
Think about those around you that you did not give a second chance, that wronged, you stepped on your toes, made a mistake, and you cut them off.
What could have changed? How could they have grown? How could they have learned?
Not saying it was wrong for you to cut them off or to whatever decision you made, but the fact still remains that second chances are extremely important.
And a lot of the time we've Got to take a moment to reflect, look at ourselves and realize that we're all the same. I'll make those mistakes, but something I want to dive back into on the legal side of things, how those legal advocates, leaders can offer redemption without losing that.
As a leader, your job is to help people grow, to create results, to get success, make everyone win. That's really what it is. But it's servant serving everybody. And if as a leader, you are the advocate, you are the person that takes on that burden, helps them solve the problem and figure out the right way to go from there, ultimately you have to clean up any mess anyway.
So how do you grow from.
But how do you give second chances and redemption without losing that accountability aspect?
This one I find to be really complicated and this one's a problem with a lot of businesses. And I'm going to go back to the same thing I've said before and I'm going to repeat it a million times if that, if that's what it takes. Because this is what's real and what's true.
Treat your team if they're your family.
A lot of people are going to tell you I'm wrong, but I can probably tell you what their culture is like.
I can tell you a lot of those people probably don't feel very safe without leaving you. See, the way to be compassionate, ride second chances, redemption and forgiveness without losing accountability is out of a position of love. If you love your team as you love your kids, you're going to discipline out of knowing what's going to be best. You're going to show opportunities that are going to be best for them. You're going to look out for their best interest and in turn, they look up for yours. They want to do good, they want to be accomplished, they want to make things happen.
Oh, in the legal world as well, where it might be all doom and gloom, a good legal representative is going to be the advocate for your redemption. Not just getting you out of this or putting somebody away.
They want to help you get through this situation and become better from it. That's what good legal representation does.
So I would say if you're stuck in a position where you have to have legal representation, look for somebody who genuinely cares about your growth and development. Not just hitting off, but learning, because learning is what really matters. So a message to those who feel stuck in their worst moment.
I want to tell you story is not there is so much more to go.
One of the beautiful things about hitting rock bottom is only way to go is up Cliche, cheesy, sure, but it's true.
The choice is yours to get up and keep moving or to stay there at the bottom. And as a leader, when you've seen people hit the rock bottom, you can be the hand that reaches down to help pull them back up.
You can either be the cable that keeps them down or the wings that lift them.
You can be a guiding voice, helping hand, a good attitude.
You've got responsibility there.
You've got the power to make a difference.
So either make a difference in a good way or a bad way. Completely up to you.
But for those that have fallen, that have made mistakes, messed up, caught in the legal system, and have a hard lesson to learn, your story is not over.
There are many success stories of people that have gone through legal situations, crimes, problems, and came out someone able to make a difference for others.
That story, that lesson, that hard experience can turn into a testimony that saves other people from making similar mistakes.
That's how I look at my mistake. That's why I look at my team's mistakes.
Every mistake is an opportunity to help somebody not make the same mistake.
So keep all this in mind.
A lot of it's easier said than done. Showing compassion when frustration is warranted, showing empathy when disdain and disgust is warranted is not easy. It's a choice.
And that choice can be the difference between someone learning from their mistakes and growing to be better or falling to rock bottom and staying there for a week.
So the bottom line is the justice system can crush people or it can lift them. Redemption is the choice to believe that really, even when someone stumbles, when it's hard to believe, you have the choice to.
You gotta believe they're still working and still trying to walk.
And it's up to you to walk with it.
It's been a pleasure to be the host of the show and to talk to you today. I look forward to speaking to you again.
Next time on the Bottom.
